tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post115086185706649276..comments2024-01-14T17:27:30.511-05:00Comments on Law, Legislation, and Lunacy: A Post to Jason the AnonymousDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1151426890687006172006-06-27T12:48:00.000-04:002006-06-27T12:48:00.000-04:00Jason, I'll be short. I wrote up a blow-by-blow, b...Jason, I'll be short. I wrote up a blow-by-blow, but that doesn't seem to be getting the point across, like David says. <BR/><BR/>I want justice. I think people are basically good. I think corporations should be responsible. I don't think the government is the best way to make them responsible. I think the government can be at least as dangerous as any other corporation - then some. I think law and order doesn't have to rely on the unlimited unilateral right to force and coercion. I think people should associate voluntarily. <BR/><BR/>But mostly, I want to say that I think that most statist interventions that are intended to produce good, helpful effects, instead hurting the people they're targeting. I think the minimum wage is a great example. I think price controls on rent is another. <BR/><BR/>I hope you stay. I hope you keep on commenting, it's good. But please try to understand where we're coming from. I get that you're afraid of corporations - I feel all that but moreso for the government. I don't think corporations are wonderful solutions, but I think they're better solutions for more people, and more often than a comparable government effort.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791838562666800883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1151380082530150842006-06-26T23:48:00.000-04:002006-06-26T23:48:00.000-04:00Tim,I would appreciate it if you do not put words ...Tim,<BR/>I would appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth. You do so several times in your response. You also seem to take my arguements and stretch them past any point of believability.<BR/><BR/>"Well I hate to break it to you, but oil isn't necessary. ... Humans survived for thousands of years without the stuff"<BR/>That was before the Industrial Revolution when the total world population wasn't even as big as today's US population. Include a much longer lifespan (getting close to double it was before), reliance on medicine, ability to grow food, keep our water drinkable, need for synthetics, etc and you'll realize that if the oil supply was suddenly and drastically reduced millions of people would die. Before you think otherwise, remember people died because of high gas prices last year after Katrina. People were unable to go to doctors, buy medicine, keep medicine in stock, and so on. Every year in Chicago there are people who freeze to death because they can't afford the heat.<BR/><BR/>"You don't think they own their gasoline? Why not make them give it away? A price ceiling of 0 - think of the wonderful productivity benefits, right? Free gas! Right."<BR/>See, there you go putting words in my mouth. I did not say they didn't own it. I said they shouldn't be able to set prices without some kind of real oversite. That's not the same as not owning. You may own something, but that doesn't mean you can do with it as you wish. I own a car, but I can't drive 100mph down a residential road with impunity. There is such a thing as responsibility to your fellow man.<BR/><BR/>"If you think someone else's idea of a fair selling price is bad, you're basically accusing them of abusing the want of said commodity."<BR/>I disagree. There is overcharging and there is abusing just as there is a difference between assult and assult with attempt to kill. It's a matter of degrees. To say one is happening does not mean the other is.<BR/><BR/>"in public commons - that is, the unowned land"<BR/>No it isn't. Public land belongs to the people of that city/state. If someone dumps toxic waste in a public park, the city files a suit. David spent a lot of time trying to convince me that corporations are "people". So if a government is a corporation, then it is also a "person" and thus can file a lawsuit. I will point out though that the purpose of a government is to protect the people while a corporation's purpose is to protect their profit margin. So are you saying that people are just a comodity to be traded and expended as necessary?<BR/><BR/>"Two words: storage tank."<BR/>Sorry but storage tanks need licenses, have to be up to saftey regulations, zoning laws, pay extra insurance, and be subject to a host of other complications. At gas stations the tanks are stored underground to minimize the risk to others. I guess if you're willing to put up with the expense of doing the same you shouldn't be stopped. But I suspect the cost of keeping and maintaining a storage tank greatly exceeds anything you'd save. Would you accept responsibilty for it or would you say it's someone else's problem if the local pond became deadly to the wildlife due to gas contamination?<BR/><BR/>"Not lots of gas, but the principle is scalable with almost no trouble."<BR/>No it isn't. Bigger tanks means a bigger chance for a leak and more gas leaking out if it has one. When doubling a recipe you can't always just double the amount of ingredients. Often enough you have to adjust to the extra size, often going through the extra difficulty of two seperate batches. You can't simply cook it for twice as long or at twice the heat. A two gallon gas tank is much easier to keep safe than a 20 gallon. It's not an issue of scaleability as practicality.<BR/><BR/>"This is too silly to even argue about."<BR/>Then why did you bring it up?<BR/><BR/>"I'm projecting using about 60 dollars to 120 dollars a week on butter"<BR/><B>PLEASE</B> tell me just what the heck do you do with between 13 and 27 pounds of butter a week! (Peapod sells better at $4.49 a pound.) I would think no one outside a business like a bakery or restaurant uses that much butter that quickly. I don't even use one pound of butter a MONTH!<BR/><BR/>"Mean Household Income Received by Each Fifth and Top 5 Percent"<BR/>Let's take a closer look at that. For the bottom 4/5ths income increased by about a factor of 4. For the 5/5th it rose by about a factor of 5. For the top 5% it rose by a factor of over 6! So the rich are getting richer which skews the rest of the columns since each 5th now covers a wider range of salleries. Also I noticed that for the bottom fifth, the income rose by at least $1000 every time except between 98 and 03 and guess what, the last time the minimum wage was increased was 97. Funny isn't it? Prices increase but not the wages most people use to buy things. Not to mention your chart doesn't say how much each 5th represents.<BR/><BR/>Gas sales<BR/>I'm in Wheaton, to drive out to Skokie or Deerfield would more than counter any benefit I would gain by these gas sales. 780 reports gas prices from all over Chicagoland and it was not mentioned. It's either the best kept secret or there's another catch keeping people from using those prices.<BR/><BR/>"I'M a commie? You're the one saying that the "compelling need" of the American people justifies the outright theft of property rights regarding oil."<BR/><B>BULLSHIT!</B> I never said that! Demanding oversite of those in power is NOT the same as theft.<BR/><BR/>I never called you a commie either. I said some parts of libertarism is LIKE communism. And from what I read of your response, I'm more convinced of it than ever. In both cases we have a system that we cannot question. In communism you can't question why those on top get the special priviliges. In libertarianism you can't question why a CEO gets a multimillion retirement package while the employee pension fund gets gutted. And if someone suggests those in power be more open and not keep so many secrets, they get put down and lied about just like what you did to me. Replace phrases like "the State" with "the Economy" or "the Company" in some of the properties of communism and it sounds a lot like what I've seen here.<BR/><BR/>"Why stop there?"<BR/>Ever hear of being reasonable? Suggesting a minor change does not mean making a major change. Pulling away from one extreme is not the same as pulling it to the oppositte extreme. I want a more "middle of the road" solution where corporations of all sorts have to justify what they do and why they do it. I want names of decision makers and what they are responsible for made public. That is NOT socialism no matter what you say. And you wonder why more people don't respond to this board.<BR/><BR/>"I think people are not monkeys with guns waiting to tear each other apart."<BR/>I think you do. From what you talk about it seems that libertarism is a capitalist version of the law of the jungle where the winner is the most ruthless with all the compassion and sentiment as a nature show on Discovery. In the wild the young, old, and sick are the preferred targets of predators. In your free market, the smaller companies are fair game for the larger ones and anything goes. To say they should follow the rules and play far is "government controled socialism".<BR/><BR/>JasonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1150964927652180042006-06-22T04:28:00.000-04:002006-06-22T04:28:00.000-04:00David, you're a saint! Thanks so much.David, you're a saint! Thanks so much.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791838562666800883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1150908388859183952006-06-21T12:46:00.000-04:002006-06-21T12:46:00.000-04:00Ok fixed...mostly; I have no idea why that huge ga...Ok fixed...mostly; I have no idea why that huge gap is there between the table and textDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1150901723843474382006-06-21T10:55:00.000-04:002006-06-21T10:55:00.000-04:00I'm going to fix some of the formatting, Tim. I ju...I'm going to fix some of the formatting, Tim. I just can't stand it.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1150862144019703212006-06-20T23:55:00.000-04:002006-06-20T23:55:00.000-04:00A pox on the format-demons that inhabit this page!...A pox on the format-demons that inhabit this page! They'll rue the day they laid claw here if ever I get a WYSIWYG editor!<BR/><BR/>Apologies for the rediculous word-wrapping and condensed data table.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791838562666800883noreply@blogger.com