tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post109142221513114421..comments2024-01-14T17:27:30.511-05:00Comments on Law, Legislation, and Lunacy: What Are the Boundaries To Freedom?Davidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1091687371871489872004-08-05T02:29:00.000-04:002004-08-05T02:29:00.000-04:00Alright Anonymous, I have a feeling who you are be...Alright Anonymous, I have a feeling who you are because you quoted both Bill Maher and Star Trek but I could be wrong considering there are (theoretically) many new people visiting this site thanks to the IHS seminar. (And your Star Trek quote, by the way, is one of my favorite. It is from the TNG episode, The Drumhead, an excellent libertarian episode, and was spoken by Jean-Luc Picard who was in turn quoting Judge Aaron Satie. If you didn't think I was a big dork before, I knew all that by heart.)<br /><br />But when we talk about this we have to be careful. Both Bill Maher, Judge Satie and Captian Picard were talking about state power. (Bill Maher often makes that statement when he attacks laws or bills against flag-burning.) <br /><br />Libertarians are an independent organization and, by virtue of our own emphasis of private property, we can exclude or include anyone we want. We don't have a sword to force people one way or the other. Again, I still think we SHOULD include bigots but my reasoning is slightly different from yours.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1091678426486248802004-08-05T00:00:00.000-04:002004-08-05T00:00:00.000-04:00I'm not poliitically savy, and I'm economically d...I'm not poliitically savy, and I'm economically dense, but with that out of the way, I think that picking and choosing who to include is just another form of bigotry. It's another -ism. <br />Over the course of the last few months, ever since Michael Moore's new movie opened, conservatives have been saying distance Moore, Moore will hurt the campaign. Shouldn't people listen to what Moore says, listen to what the liberals say, listen to as many viewpoints as possible, and then make a decision? <br />As Bill Mahr said quite often, "I may disagree with what someone says, but I will defend until my dying day that person's right to say it."<br />I'm not talking about great ideas, or petty ideas, life and world changing ideas or simple domestic or personal ideas. I'm simply talking about the right to have those ideas, those beliefs. Because, "'[with] the first link a chain is formed. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we're all damaged." <br />If libertarians are truly inclusive, then be that. Inclusivity is different from wholesale agreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6737941.post-1091571070265230872004-08-03T18:11:00.000-04:002004-08-03T18:11:00.000-04:00Your argument is similar to Steve's in the sense t...Your argument is similar to Steve's in the sense that we shouldn't accept certain people into the libertarian ideology unless we think they can add more than they take away. (Steve is very suspicious that bigots can pull this off.)<br /><br />But there's a core flaw in that reasoning: We can't do that. Not accurately. No one knows who will come up with the Next Great Idea and while we can make guesses and estimates, it's really easy for a "worthy" person to slip through the cracks because the only way to truly know if they were worth the cricitism is after they're dead.<br /><br />Picking and choosing individuals are even more difficult when you bring up the question of the magnitude of costs and benefits. Obviously, you and I disagree on the costs of bigotry and the possible benefits of new ideas. How are we to determine, just between the two of us, who gets to "belong?"<br /><br />Finally, there's a issue of legitmacy. I think libertarians gain a lot more credibility if we include as many people as possible in our ideology while recognizing we disagree of some of what they say. Debate, open minds and free choice are core components of libertarianism. Even as a private ideology/organization, if we pick and choose when to defend and celebrate liberty, it looks bad (and for good reason).Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14364155797420903461noreply@blogger.com